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	<title>Comments on: Users prevail: Microsoft changes Windows 7 UAC control panel behavior to address security flaw</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/</link>
	<description>All the stuff about Microsoft and technology you haven&#039;t read anywhere else.</description>
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		<title>By: Microsoft dismisses Windows 7 UAC security flaw, continues to insist it is &#8220;by design&#8221; - istartedsomething</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-112800</link>
		<dc:creator>Microsoft dismisses Windows 7 UAC security flaw, continues to insist it is &#8220;by design&#8221; - istartedsomething</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-112800</guid>
		<description>[...] 3: Microsoft has since addressed this problem by correcting the problem. In the more final builds of Windows 7, the UAC control panel will require elevation to change its [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 3: Microsoft has since addressed this problem by correcting the problem. In the more final builds of Windows 7, the UAC control panel will require elevation to change its [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Windows 7 Enterprise Tests Underway &#187; Swanson Photo&#8217;s</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-94014</link>
		<dc:creator>Windows 7 Enterprise Tests Underway &#187; Swanson Photo&#8217;s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-94014</guid>
		<description>[...] UAC prompts are less intrusive.&#160; When auth is required the delay has been greatly reduced. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] UAC prompts are less intrusive.&#160; When auth is required the delay has been greatly reduced. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Windows 7 : Credits to Long Zheng: UAC in Windows 7 ge&#228;ndert</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-72823</link>
		<dc:creator>Windows 7 : Credits to Long Zheng: UAC in Windows 7 ge&#228;ndert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-72823</guid>
		<description>[...] hört auf das feedback. Und das sogar (lt. Long) besser als ursprünglich von ihm vorgeschlagen: Users prevail: Microsoft changes Windows 7 UAC control panel behavior to address security flaw bzw. vom Engineering Team: UAC Feedback and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] hört auf das feedback. Und das sogar (lt. Long) besser als ursprünglich von ihm vorgeschlagen: Users prevail: Microsoft changes Windows 7 UAC control panel behavior to address security flaw bzw. vom Engineering Team: UAC Feedback and [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Xeround&#8217;s Yarkoni talks about the cloud, databases and more &#124; Erik Bowman</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-71746</link>
		<dc:creator>Xeround&#8217;s Yarkoni talks about the cloud, databases and more &#124; Erik Bowman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-71746</guid>
		<description>[...] on policies and practices large and small &#8212; including software usage rules, worker perks, Windows 7 user account controls, gay rights legislation, and its decision not to require some two dozen laid-off employees to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on policies and practices large and small &mdash; including software usage rules, worker perks, Windows 7 user account controls, gay rights legislation, and its decision not to require some two dozen laid-off employees to [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Why Microsoft has been making such a habit of changing its mind &#171; Erik Bowman&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-71745</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Microsoft has been making such a habit of changing its mind &#171; Erik Bowman&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-71745</guid>
		<description>[...] on policies and practices large and small &#8212; including software usage rules, worker perks, Windows 7 user account controls, gay rights legislation, and its decision not to require some two dozen laid-off employees to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on policies and practices large and small &mdash; including software usage rules, worker perks, Windows 7 user account controls, gay rights legislation, and its decision not to require some two dozen laid-off employees to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim West</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-70419</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-70419</guid>
		<description>@Andres
Good point-I feel guilty for overlooking that aspect (that some of the incessant UAC  prompts come from poorly-designed apps requiring admin rights when they truly don&#039;t need it). 

Since I&#039;ve spent a significant portion of my career repackaging applications, I&#039;m all-too familiar with lazy vendors who assume users have admin rights and won&#039;t support packaging the app to a locked-down environment, even though that&#039;s been the enterprise standard for a decade or more (MSI was released in &#039;99/2000, and apps were brute-force repackaged before then).

Still, I&#039;m not seeing a benefit to UAC in the real world. Yes, it does expose improperly-engineered apps, but that exposure doesn&#039;t help the end user in the moment who has to deal with that poorly-engineered app...it merely exposes it and makes working with it require extra clicks on screens that a typical end-user won&#039;t even read, or they&#039;ll just get used to having those extra clicks. While enterprise environments will simply open specific registry perms to allow the app to work (as they already have to do), the SOHO environments will give the user admin rights-it&#039;s faster and they don&#039;t have the luxury of time for discovering which perms it requires.

UAC is an interesting idea, and it&#039;s good MS put effort into solving the underlying issue: too many things in windows require admin priveleges, and too many users aren&#039;t very savvy. Unfortunately, it seems to only address a small class of users. Hell, I don&#039;t run any of my machines (or my family&#039;s) machines as restricted users-the administrative overhead is just too high. It&#039;s easier to let everyone run as admin, use good prevention and scanning tools, and clean up the machines occasionally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andres<br />
Good point-I feel guilty for overlooking that aspect (that some of the incessant UAC  prompts come from poorly-designed apps requiring admin rights when they truly don&#8217;t need it). </p>
<p>Since I&#8217;ve spent a significant portion of my career repackaging applications, I&#8217;m all-too familiar with lazy vendors who assume users have admin rights and won&#8217;t support packaging the app to a locked-down environment, even though that&#8217;s been the enterprise standard for a decade or more (MSI was released in &#8216;99/2000, and apps were brute-force repackaged before then).</p>
<p>Still, I&#8217;m not seeing a benefit to UAC in the real world. Yes, it does expose improperly-engineered apps, but that exposure doesn&#8217;t help the end user in the moment who has to deal with that poorly-engineered app&#8230;it merely exposes it and makes working with it require extra clicks on screens that a typical end-user won&#8217;t even read, or they&#8217;ll just get used to having those extra clicks. While enterprise environments will simply open specific registry perms to allow the app to work (as they already have to do), the SOHO environments will give the user admin rights-it&#8217;s faster and they don&#8217;t have the luxury of time for discovering which perms it requires.</p>
<p>UAC is an interesting idea, and it&#8217;s good MS put effort into solving the underlying issue: too many things in windows require admin priveleges, and too many users aren&#8217;t very savvy. Unfortunately, it seems to only address a small class of users. Hell, I don&#8217;t run any of my machines (or my family&#8217;s) machines as restricted users-the administrative overhead is just too high. It&#8217;s easier to let everyone run as admin, use good prevention and scanning tools, and clean up the machines occasionally.</p>
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		<title>By: graham.lv</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-70267</link>
		<dc:creator>graham.lv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 23:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-70267</guid>
		<description>I agree with JIm West post.

Not only at home, but I think it would be worse at work.  At work, people would be more inclined to click OK for anything because &quot;Hey&quot; it&#039;s not your PC or business.  Let the supervisor sort it out if anything goes wrong.

Also, mostly no one knows whether they are suppose to click OK to something or not.  Why not do an &#039;in the wild&#039; survey of a firm with 100 - 500 employees.  Load something they are NOT suppose to elevate or click OK and see how many do.

So, what&#039;s the point of UAC?  Except to very knowledgeable geeks!

Don&#039;t expect a firms employees to give a shit about UAC - or even know what it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with JIm West post.</p>
<p>Not only at home, but I think it would be worse at work.  At work, people would be more inclined to click OK for anything because &#8220;Hey&#8221; it&#8217;s not your PC or business.  Let the supervisor sort it out if anything goes wrong.</p>
<p>Also, mostly no one knows whether they are suppose to click OK to something or not.  Why not do an &#8216;in the wild&#8217; survey of a firm with 100 &#8211; 500 employees.  Load something they are NOT suppose to elevate or click OK and see how many do.</p>
<p>So, what&#8217;s the point of UAC?  Except to very knowledgeable geeks!</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t expect a firms employees to give a shit about UAC &#8211; or even know what it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Andres</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-70235</link>
		<dc:creator>Andres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-70235</guid>
		<description>@Jim West: What you are missing is the effect on the windows ecosystem. The reason UAC is so annoying is because most programs want to run with administrator rights when they don&#039;t really need it. Over time, more and more programs will run without UAC prompts (so far there are a lot of programs that used to require admin that don&#039;t anymore).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jim West: What you are missing is the effect on the windows ecosystem. The reason UAC is so annoying is because most programs want to run with administrator rights when they don&#8217;t really need it. Over time, more and more programs will run without UAC prompts (so far there are a lot of programs that used to require admin that don&#8217;t anymore).</p>
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		<title>By: JIm West</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-70233</link>
		<dc:creator>JIm West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-70233</guid>
		<description>Please don&#039;t take this as flame-bait, or excessive criticism of UAC. I just haven&#039;t read anywhere of a really good argument for using UAC that contradicts my experience. I feel like I&#039;m missing a piece of the pie.

I&#039;ve spent most of my career in enterprise environments (thousands of PC&#039;s, hundreds of servers), and have supported a small-business equivalent of home users (family and friends, about 30 machines in all). In the enterprise, workstations are locked down, users have limited access, and all installations are managed via SMS or manual installs performed by a small group with administrative rights, so UAC isn&#039;t really useful (or is there an enterprise model where it is?).

I see the potential benefit of UAC for the home user, although my experience is that home users eventually get tired of the prompts, and ask to have it disabled. Also, making home users reduced accounts can be done, but I find it actually costs more in support effort (because then they HAVE to call me for advanced config, or I have to give them an admin account, which they end up using all the time anyway), and isn&#039;t the purpose of UAC to reduce support needs by reducing infections, etc?

I guess I&#039;m just missing the model where UAC is truly beneficial and it&#039;s objectives can&#039;t be accomplished through other, more traditional methods which are also required for disaster recovery/new systems anyway (real physical firewall, good regular backups, images or unattended setup) .

Any thoughts? What am I missing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please don&#8217;t take this as flame-bait, or excessive criticism of UAC. I just haven&#8217;t read anywhere of a really good argument for using UAC that contradicts my experience. I feel like I&#8217;m missing a piece of the pie.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve spent most of my career in enterprise environments (thousands of PC&#8217;s, hundreds of servers), and have supported a small-business equivalent of home users (family and friends, about 30 machines in all). In the enterprise, workstations are locked down, users have limited access, and all installations are managed via SMS or manual installs performed by a small group with administrative rights, so UAC isn&#8217;t really useful (or is there an enterprise model where it is?).</p>
<p>I see the potential benefit of UAC for the home user, although my experience is that home users eventually get tired of the prompts, and ask to have it disabled. Also, making home users reduced accounts can be done, but I find it actually costs more in support effort (because then they HAVE to call me for advanced config, or I have to give them an admin account, which they end up using all the time anyway), and isn&#8217;t the purpose of UAC to reduce support needs by reducing infections, etc?</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m just missing the model where UAC is truly beneficial and it&#8217;s objectives can&#8217;t be accomplished through other, more traditional methods which are also required for disaster recovery/new systems anyway (real physical firewall, good regular backups, images or unattended setup) .</p>
<p>Any thoughts? What am I missing?</p>
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		<title>By: Andres</title>
		<link>http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090206/microsoft-changes-windows-7-uac-control/#comment-69888</link>
		<dc:creator>Andres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.istartedsomething.com/?p=3423#comment-69888</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand how this fixes the problem... Doesn&#039;t this only prevent a program from changing the UAC settings? Who needs to do that if you can auto-elevate, and bypass UAC completely?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand how this fixes the problem&#8230; Doesn&#8217;t this only prevent a program from changing the UAC settings? Who needs to do that if you can auto-elevate, and bypass UAC completely?</p>
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